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Peter Carroll RIC

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C Lawton	Peter Carroll RIC		Lead	[-]
Sergeant Posts: 1 2-Mar-2010 11:41 AM	Remove this ad I am trying to trace my Great Grandfather Peter Carroll who I believe was a member of the RIC in the late 1880s through to about 1905. He was then involved in some form of accident and as far as I know left the RIC when the rest of his family came to England. I know that he was stationed in Garristown Co Dublin in 1893-95 when my grandfather and great uncle were born.My great aunt the youngest of the three children was listed as born in Dublin. I know his wife came from Co Limerick and it is always said that he cam from the Co Tipperary Co Limerick border area although this maybe incorrect. I would be extremely grateful for any information on him.
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Peter Mc RIC		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 320 3-Mar-2010 8:35 PM Inspector-General	Have you any idea of his age in 1905? Or better still date of birth? Peter Mc
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C Lawton	Peter Carroll RIC	#2	[url]	[-]
Sergeant Posts: 2 8-Mar-2010 9:00 AM	Sadly no specific dates or ages however my Great Grandmother was born in 1861 and I believe he was around her age so between 1858 and 1864. Apologies for the lack of information but after they came to England and lived in very impoverished circumstances there seems to have been a concerted effort to forget the past. What I do know is that by the 1911 census by Great Grandmother lists herself as a widow so he must have died in the intervening period. Thank you for taking an interest.
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Peter Mc RIC		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 326 8-Mar-2010 11:12 AM Inspector-General	Given the rough birth date I'd suggest getting the records corresponding to service numbers 51468 and 53388. Let us know the results of this, particularly which counties the men served in. I may have further information regarding a serious injury sustained some years before he retired, and which may have been the cause of retirement. I know a Constable Carroll was pensioned from Garristown in 1895, however there was also a Sergeant Carroll at the same station. Without some more details from his service record it would be hard to provide any further info. Peter Mc
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C Lawton	Peter Carroll RIC	#4	[url]	[-]
Sergeant Posts: 3 8-Mar-2010 1:39 PM	Peter Family legend has it that Peter Carroll was shot in the head whilst guarding the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland at sometime in his career. The wound did not kill him though, but made him somewhat confused and absent minded which grew worse with time. I know that attacks on the RIC were mercifully rare in the late 19th century so I have always taken what has been said with a pinch of salt. His wife Kate Heffernan who came from a wealthy Limerick family was almost abandoned by her own family for marrying a member of the RIC which meant when things became very difficult for her and the 3 children she left Ireland for Manchester to live in a back to back house in a very poor part of Salford. Whilst my grandfather, the middle child who was born in 1894 spoke about his mother he made a point of never mentioning his father or the circumstances which resulted in them moving to England in 1905. Apologies if this post breaks the rules of the board but I have no way of knowing what the truth really is because the family shrouded it all in secrecy for nearly 70 years.
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C Lawton	Peter Carroll RIC	#5	[url]	[-]
Sergeant Posts: 4 10-Mar-2010 2:56 PM	I have now found out that Peter Carroll married Catherine Heffernan on 14 July 1883 at the Catholic Cathedral in Limerick. Unfortunately no record of his birth or age is on the certificate but I do know that his wife was 22 at the time and he was about 5 years older which would make his date of birth around 1855 to 1856. Any further help on his service number would be much appreciated My second cousin thinks he might have come from Co Kilkenny and not Limerick or Tipperary.
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aceman67		#6	[url]	[-]
Head Constable Posts: 9 11-Mar-2010 10:57 AM	Remove this ad Im not sure if it is of any help but there was a Peter Carroll from Galway who joined the RIC in 1876 at the age of 19, which would make his birth aroun 1857.It might be worth looking in that area for birth cert. Also Carroll is a very popular name here in Kilkenny and there were a number of Carrolls joined the RIC but none of them was Peter,would he have had any other first name?
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C Lawton	Peter Carroll RIC	#7	[url]	[-]
Sergeant Posts: 5 11-Mar-2010 3:39 PM	Aceman67, Thank you very much, it is a puzzle, the age is about right but there are no births registered of a Peter Carrroll whose father's christian name was Philip in or around Galway. His name Peter only appears on all of his children's birth certificates and in fact his eldest son was also called Peter. His marriage certificate is very sparse on information apart from his address, a barracks in Limerick and that his father called Philip was a farmer. The witnesss were his brides family, but I am only using indexed copies, whether the original has more information on is another matter. I know his postings were Garristown and Dublin in the 1890s which is confirmed by the elder two boys birth certificates, although i have never traced my Great Aunt's one, who was according to the 1911 census in the UK was born in Dublin. As Peter MC suggests a trip to Kew to look throuh the indexes and records is probably best and as i live in London is not a great hardship. Once again thanks for the suggestions, which could well be correct and as I visit Co Clare with my wife most years, a trip there would be easy as well.
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C Lawton	Peter Carroll RIC	#8	[url]	[-]
Sergeant Posts: 6 25-Aug-2010 1:29 PM	Thanks to Aceman67 and Peter Mc RIC who have helped me uncover a lot of information on my Gt Grandfather Peter Carroll, a constable in the RIC. I recently went to the National Archives at Kew and his service record is as follows-: Service Number: 42328 Name: Peter Carroll Age: 19 ½ Height 5’10” Native: County Galway ER If married date: Native County of Wife: Limerick City Recommended by: S J Reeves Trade of calling: Labourer Appointment: 18 June 1877 Allocations: Limerick City 31 July 1877 Waterford 1 May 1884 Dublin (presumably Garristown) 1 January I892 Promotions or reductions: None shown Rewards or marks of distinction: Int Rec 29 June 1887 I Hys 11 April 1890 HG Com 18 September 1890 Punishments: Admin 1 November 1879 Uni Reg 11 June 1890 unreadable 29 June 1894 If Discharged Resigned or Dead: Pensioned 11 April 1895 Injuries: fracture of Frontal Bone 30 December 189X probably 1894 Remarks: None I have also now found the 1901 census return which shows him, his wife and two of his three children living in Clara Kings County ( Co Offaly) where he is referred to as a timekeeper and an RIC pensioner aged 43. All the other information ties in exactly except he lists their religion for all of them as C of I which is wrong, they were all RC. The missing child, my grandfather is shown as living that night with his maternal grandmother ( a widow) and her remaining unmarried children in Limerick City. There are 2 anomalies, first he married on 14 July 1883 when stationed in Limerick after only 6 years service and he was not moved to Waterford until May of the following year. Clearly he was in breach of the rules on marrying before 7 years service had elapsed and it seems odd that he was not moved earlier. The wedding took place in the Cathedral so keeping it quiet was not an option! My only questions now are what if any information is available on how he received the head injury there is a number next to the comment about the injury and that he was pensioned but I do not know if this information is available anywhere.I would also be interested in an explanation of the short hand on the awards recommendations and punishments that he received. Once again thanks to everyone who has contributed.
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Peter Mc RIC		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 530 30-Aug-2010 9:17 AM Inspector-General	Well done on getting the record. Just some typo corrections to help you out (below), do a search through this site and you'll find references to what Jubliee Records, Favourable Records, Commendations etc are. Some day (unless some kind soul helps out rather leaving all the work to me!!) I'll get together an FAQ of what the key points of a service record shows. SJ Reeves is S.I. Reeves (Sub Inspector) Int Rec is Jub Rec (Jubilee Record) HYS is Half Yearly Summary HG Com is probably HE Com (His Excellency's Commendation) Uni Reg is UnRec or Unf Rec = Unfavourable Record Have you looked into the Irish Times online archive? Its a fee based service but well worth a trawl and you may be able to locate something on or before the dates quoted above. The HE Com is well worth looking into as it suggests a significant act. The Kew files (perhaps County Inspectors reports for the period?) may be of help here also. Peter Mc
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C Lawton	Peter Carroll RIC	#10	[url]	[-]
Sergeant Posts: 7 7-Sep-2010 10:59 AM	Peter, once again thanks for the help and encouragement. I have checked the Irish Times on line but there is nothing obvious. I should say that the service record copy is so poor that the date could easily be 30 December 1891, although this is unlikely; it would mean Peter Carroll waited 5 years to be pensioned for the injuries he had received. When I have time for a visit to Kew and look at the County Inspector's reports; also I will search the Irish Times archive more thoroughly. Is the HE Com rare? Might it have something to do with being a personal bodyguard to the Lord Lieutenant which is the family folk-lore; I have discounted this so far but it might be like your post on your family "The Giants" and be genuine. It will take a few weeks to investigate further but I will feed back to the board when completed. Again grateful thanks for every ones interest.
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C Lawton	Peter Carroll RIC final installment	#11	[url]	[-]
Sergeant Posts: 8 23-Feb-2011 8:32 AM	Remove this ad I finally managed to go through my Great Grandfather's pension records and the County Inspectors reports, as suggested by Peter Mc RIC. The pension records confirm Peter Carroll received a pension of £30 pa until his death, which because he just disappeared sometime in 1907 when the family were living in England, went unrecorded. His pension was stopped on 22 July 1907 with a note that the pensioner was missing presumed dead. From the other records it appears that my Great Grandmother, who never re-married, did not receive a pension after her husband’s death. I have traced two Peter Carroll death records which approximately match his age in Cheshire and Manchester for late 1906 and 1907 respectively, one of them might be him but I really have no way of knowing. I have been through many pages of the County Inspectors’ reports, but sadly the records for the Midlands Division of the RIC (which includes County Dublin) for late 1894 are missing from the records held by Kew. I should say that this collection of papers is now scanned, but only as unbundled boxes so there is no indexation and each file holds between 7/800 images so it is not only time consuming but not always easy to read. The record might be there amongst it all but sadly I do not have the time to search for days on end. My search of the Irish Times did not turn up anything either so the H E Commendation cannot be researched any further or the circumstances leading to Peter Carroll’s head injury. However having trawled through the County Inspectors reports for elsewhere it is evident that, although violence against the RIC was rare in the 1890s: there were still a large number of activities that RIC personnel attended could lead to a head injury such as evictions and other issues around land ownership. So my search is complete and I would just like to record my thanks to Peter Mc RIC and Aceman67 for their interest and help in this, which has been very rewarding for me, my mother and her cousins.
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