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Kirwans in the RIC

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Julia	Kirwans in the RIC		Lead	[-]
Recruit Posts: 1 31-Aug-2009 11:12 PM	Remove this ad I'm researching Kirwans who were members of the RIC. Two that I know of are William Kirwan, who joined in 1861 aged 20 - he was from Kings County - I have a photocopy of the page of the registration book, but it is difficult to make out. It appeard he was posted to Kilkenny, where I believe he met and married a Catherine Roberts. He then moved to Wexford. There are a number of entries in the columns relating to promotions and pension details, but I can't see them clearly. It also doesn't tell you where in Kings County he was from. I believe this William Kirwan's son, Stephen, also became a member of the RIC, and was posted to Dublin, where he appears on the 1911 census. Is there any way of finding out what is written in the columns about promotions/moves and pension details without going to Kew? The film number is 856063, and page number 135c I think. Would there be any record of his home town? I am also aware of a Richard Kirwan who was in the RIC, but haven't managed to find out any more about him. I also spotted an earlier post from someone who said they had a list from th British Parliamentary Papers of RIC members who had been given awards, but this link is no longer live - is there a way to access these records? Any help anyone can give would be greatly appreciated! Thankyou.
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Peter Mc RIC		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 84 1-Sep-2009 3:31 PM Inspector-General	Hi Julia. I believe the William Kirwan you refer to had the number 26634 (for future ref - to all posters - please include as much information as possible, particularly if you know the police number). A Stephen Kirwan 58582 did indeed join the RIC. You will need to get the service record though to find out more. This does though, sound like his son. There were two Richard Kirwans (14045 and 30946) that you could try. You can order a copy of the service record to avoid going to Kew, see Research resources and help notes. I can then help in trying to identify what these are, but they can be very abbreviated. Alternatively SKS could do a look up for you and post the results here - anyone? The list of awards you mention is probably a photocopy of gallantry medals won by the RIC. It is incomplete and not of much genealogical value unless you have an ancestor who won a medal (Kirwan wasn't one!). Peter Mc
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DesW		#2	[url]	[-]
District Inspector 1st Class Posts: 1 3-Nov-2009 1:47 AM	Hi Julia (Updated on 15 June 2011) I can help you about 2 of the RIC Kirwans………. William William Kirwan was my great grandfather and his son Stephen my grandfather on my mother's side. The info that you have and which Peter supplied corresponds to my own findings. William came from, as you say, Co Offaly (Ballinvally, Geashill). Born 1840/41, married Catherine Roberts (born 1842/43 Co Carlow) 7^th Jul 1868 in Grange, Co Kilkenny. He died as a widower & RIC pensioner in Milltown, Ferns Co Wexford on 18^th Jan 1917, aged 77. Catherine died the year before, in 1916. I have the 1911 census return for William’s family (and, of course Stephen’s). We since located William & Catherine in 1901 census in Templescoby, Co. Wexford. I transcribed William's service record myself from Dublin City Archive (Microfilm). The original writing is hard to read in parts alright, maybe Peter could kindly help decipher some of the RIC-speak? Here are my best efforts at transcribing the columns you mentioned: Allocations: Kilkenny (21 July 1861); Wexford (1 October 1868) Promotions/ Demotions: R 2 S(?)C 1 January 1864(?) 9 months; P Asst Constable 1 July 1875; P Constable 1 February 1877; R Constable 12 September 1885 Rewards: Blank Punishments: Fined £2-10-00; Fined 40/- 25/5/1885 (Owch, but no reasons given). Discharge: Pensioned Discharge Date: 1 June 1886 Injuries: Blank Total Service: 25 years, 2 months; Pension £46-00-00. Stephen I got his service record transcript sent by email from the Garda Museum and checked it at the DC Archive myself. Not sure if you need it, please let me know. Stephen, born 4^th May 1877 in Ferns, Co Wexford, joined the RIC on 1st Dec 1898, aged 21. He was assigned to Galway E.R. (1st Jun 1899). Thanks to you, he was at found at Ballinagar RIC Barracks, Co. Galway in the 1901 census. From there he was sent to Co. Carlow (24th Oct 1902). He married Ellen Byrne (born 3^rd Feb 1878 in Tinnahich, Co Carlow) on 27^th June 1906 and was then moved to Nth Co Dublin. The family set up home in Garristown, not too far from Balbriggan. As you say, Stephen did the census for the district (and his own household) in 1911. He was promoted to Sergeant 1st Aug 1920, based in Balbriggan. The rest is probably more for Family Reminiscences, but here I go. They had 10 kids – Kathleen (died 1942), Eileen, May, Billy (went to England 1941), Stevie, Charlie, Agnes, Senny (Esther Senonsus, poor kid!!!), Frances (my late Mam) & Angela (my late godmother). None of the 8 of them that I knew talked too much about Stephen. He was shot & mortally wounded at Ballyboghill 18th Apr 1921 and died next day beside one of his wounded assailants (amazingly a Peter White - same surname as me but no relation!) in King George V Hosp, Dublin (now St Bricin's Army Hosp). His kids were a bit young then, the youngest only actually born later that year, so they didn't really know/remenber him well. Ellen was a lovely Nan who unfortunately died when I was only aged 2 in 1956 - but I do remember her doting on me & spoiling me! She & her family lived in an impressive house overlooking the sea in Balbriggan just south of the harbour for a few years after Angela's birth in Nov 1921. She sold it for £90 (it was bought in the early 1980's for £45k!). From 1928 they lived at Hollybank Road in Drumcondra until the last unmarried Kirwan living there (Eileen) died in 1998. The whole generation is all gone now, sadly, the last being my Mam in 2007, aged 89 and her sister-in-law Chris Kirwan in July this year (Her father was a Michael Doyle, ex-RIC too. He was a Sergeant involved in the "Siege of Enniscorthy" in 1916 & was awarded a Constabulary Medal as a result). As we have since learned, one of our Kirwans, Kate, was officially recognised as an active patricipant on the IRA side in that event. We have also discovered that 2 of Stephen's younger brothers, Fenton & Charles joined the RIC too: both survived until disbandment in 1922. Stephen is buried in the RIC Plot in Glasnevin (Prospect) Cemetery, Dublin; his widow and 7 of his children are buried in two other plots there too. And of course, we now know that the name of your Michael Hallissy/Hallissey, a Sergeant killed in 1921 in an ambush in Ballyfermot, Co. Dublin is listed just above Stephen's name on the Glasnevin RIC memorial! Best Regards Des Last Edited By: DesW 15-Jun-2011 2:07 AM. Edited 2 times.
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ballyroughan	Stephen Kirwan, Sgt 58582.	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 230 17-Sep-2011 9:55 PM	Hi, Des. I thought you may find this interesting, a File i came across in the Catalogue of the National Archives Kew. Ireland: Dublin Castle Records, CO.904/44/17. -Note to File- Patrick Donnelly,charged with murder of Sergeant Kirwan, Royal Irish Constabulary. Doctor Robert May, arrested questioned and released, Peter White, Raider died. Attempted murder, High Treason, etc ( Described at item level) Patrick Donnelly, charged. Last Edited By: ballyroughan 18-Sep-2011 4:22 PM. Edited 1 time.
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DesW		#4	[url]	[-]
District Inspector 1st Class Posts: 56 5-Oct-2011 4:00 AM	Hi John Many thanks for that info. I have my Stephen's DC plus that of Peter White; and lots more about Stephen. BMD's; routine RIC notices in the papers; census data; media reports of his shooting & death; his widow's successful appeal for increased compensation for his killing ( by Ellen nee Byrne, my Nan), etc. But no RIC official stuff relevant to your brilliant BMD project, sorry. And, worst of all to me, no photo of Stephen. On his DC, the authorities (Military Inquiry) named "Peter White and Wilson, Donnelly and other person or persons unknown" as "the armed Sinn Féiners" guilty of Stephen's "willful murder". {*Peter White - no relation to me - also died the day after the same incident in a hospital bed adjacent to my Grandad}. My Mam Frances was only 2 (with a little sister on the way) when Stephen was killed. She, her Mam or her 9 siblings never spoke of or told us any real info about his death. I believe now that they didn't know as much as I've learned since. Different times..... Before my recent research, our family folklore (from 1st cousin Kirwans) was that Stephen was a drinker who got into a wild west style (well, North Co Dublin, what's the difference) shoot-out in the pub, O'Connors in Ballyboughil. The official reports in the media were obviously different (Sergeant on duty, murdered). I'd love to know if records of the military inquiry still exist and might be available in Kew, let alone open to the public at this stage (100 year rule?). I've promised myself and Peter (McRIC, not White) that I will put up a biog of Stephen on this forum. I'll do that before I follow him to oblivion (hopefully not too soon). Now that I think of my spell living in Balbriggan, North Co Dublin (economic refugee from Clontarf, Dublin in the late 1970's), I'd a neighbour called Peter White who was local-ish. He was a total wimp, but I've wondered since - was he related to the other casualty when my Grandad died? It's always interesting and an education to me to read your posts, John. And, thanks to Peter's great forum, I've learned lots about Stephen & his life and times. Plus I met Julia K, the lovely lady who started this thread & who led me to this forum and lots more of my ancestry (met her and some other unknown relations as well). And, of course, I met the famous (to me) Peter McRIC and saw the Dublin Garda Museum with him too! Cheers Des White Last Edited By: DesW 21-Feb-2012 5:38 AM. Edited 1 time.
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