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Head Constable Eugene Igoe

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DesW

Bridget or Delia Elwood, wife of Eugene Igoe. And That Pub.

#41

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District Inspector 1st Class

Posts: 58

2-Jan-2012 11:50 PM

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Hi Guys
Great work, fascinating stuff - and not just about Eugene Igoe.
{In addition, this topic has again reinforced for me the need to check, check and treble-check sources and doubt eveything until you see it yourself}.
Anyway, I may be able to add something small.
1. Who was Mrs Eugene Igoe.
I plan to get the 1922 civil marriage register entry asap. It should show the couples' addresses, occupations (if any) and fathers' names (We know Eugene's*). Maybe even ages, rather than the usual infuriating "Full Age" (=21 or more).
I've found 2 Delia Elwoods born 1895 in the 1911 census plus the girl born in 1901.
Intriguingly, one Delia is recorded as the 15 year old niece of Jane Giles, a widowed Publican & Grocer in Williamgate Street, Galway City. And Mrs Giles had the maiden name of Elwood before her marriage in Jan-Mar 1890 to a Patrick Giles, a publican & grocer.
Jane Giles appears to have died in 1925, aged 71 (possibly retired from the pub business....).
Like Peter, I wonder if this could be the Pub & Grocery Igoe claimed they'd lost? Having previously been left to Bridget/Delia as the favourite niece of Mrs Giles?
But I won't disagree with the family relative's 1901 birthdate or jump to any conclusions before I see the marriage record and post its details
2. The Pub & Grocery
I can't find any online valuation record of property in Williamsgate Street, Galway. But I found "Giles grocery & sweetshop about 1920" mentioned at:
http://www.kennys.ie/News...2006-WilliamsgateStreet/
If I can get any more info at the Dublin Valuation Office, I'll post it too.
* Interestingly, Eugene's father was Thomas Igoe, recorded in 1901 & 1911 censuses as a "Farmer & Rate Collector" in Carrowcastle, Sallymount, Co Mayo. Another none-too-popular occupation with his contemporaries!
(Other Sources: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/ and https://familysearch.org).
Happy New Year
Des

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DesW

Witness Statements Online - Forecast

#42

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District Inspector 1st Class

Posts: 61

5-Jan-2012 5:16 AM

Hi Folks
According to RTE TV News interview with Commdt Laing from the Bureau of Military Archives, the Witness Statements should be available online in "March" (My cynicism, he didn't say what year....but it's 2012!).
Their own site has a list of them:
http://www.militaryarchives.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/The_Bureau_of_Military_History_1913-1921_Index_to_Contributors.pdf
and says "Coming Soon" on the home page: http://www.militaryarchives.ie/
Cheers
Des

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DesW

Marriage record for Igoe-Elwood

#43

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District Inspector 1st Class

Posts: 62

6-Jan-2012 4:12 AM

Here is the copy Marriage Register entry from Dublin GRO for Eugene Igoe's union with Bridget Elwood:

Trust me, here is a transcript:
1922, Marriage solemnised at the RC Cathedral of St Nicholas in the Registrar's District of Galway No 1, in the Union of Galway, Co Galway.
Marriage No 83 registered......1st March 1922....(signed) T.Lydon, Deputy Registrar.
When Married: 28th February 1922
Name & Surname Age Condition Rank/Profession Residence at time of Marriage Father's Name Rank or Profession of Father
Eugene Igoe 32 Bachelor Head Constable RIC London Thomas Igoe Farmer
Bridget Elwood 21 Spinster Shop Assistant Williams Gate Street, Galway William Elwood Farmer
The clergyman was Antony (sic) J. Considine.....hard to read rest of his title - Ad. V.G. (?)
Witnesses were John Elwood and Norah Elwood.
So we can conclude:
a. Eugene did not use an alias on this official record (whatever about in marriage banns - highly unlikely he'd have been allowed use a different name for that purpose).
b. He did not give a specific place of residence, let alone an Irish one.
c. Bridget/Delia herself and her family are still a bit mysterious! This jury is still out about born 1901 or born 1895.....
Will post about her and "the Pub" when my heads clears....
Cheers
Des

Last Edited By: DesW 8-Jan-2012 3:01 AM. Edited 2 times.

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caplestreetman

Eugene Igoe

#44

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County Inspector

Posts: 71

6-Jan-2012 5:44 PM

Good work DesW, I look forward to the story of the " Pub "

CSM

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Peter Mc RIC

#45

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Posts: 1214

6-Jan-2012 9:48 PM

Inspector-General

Monsignor Anthony J Considine, Dean of Galway, Vicar General and Apostolic Pronotary. I knew Igoe had friends in high places!

Great work Des, as always.

Peter Mc

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DesW

Mrs Igoe & The Pub - part 2

#46

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District Inspector 1st Class

Posts: 66

8-Jan-2012 2:33 AM

Thanks CSM.

There are 3 girls name Bridget or Delia Elwood in Co Galway in 1911 with relevant profiles. I’ll call them Delia 1, Delia 2 and Bridget.

1. Delia 1: The only one living with a father named William Elwood is called Delia (wrongly transcribed as "Julia") at house 32 in Suckeen (Galway North Urban, Galway). Aged 15 (so, born c.1895 as Peter said came up in later documents).

2. The Bridget born in 1901 has a father named Bartly - house 2 in Shankill (Annaghdown, Galway).

3. Delia 2 (the one living in the pub in Williamsgate Street) is also 15, but her father seems to have been another Bartly - house 5 in Muckrush (Annaghdown, Galway).

In 1901, Delia 1 is shown aged 6; Bridget is strangely not recorded (born Feb according to a relative, census on 31^st March); there’s no record of Delia 2 anywhere.

There appears to be connections between all those Elwood families. Look at the recurring given names involved. Are those marriage witnesses (John & Norah) siblings of "the" Bridget? A brother John James aged 4 and a sister Nora aged 8 are listed with Delia 1 in the census.....

So, if we accept the lady’s age (21) on her Marriage Cert in 1922 which is also the age believed by the relative quoted by Peter, there is a conflict with her father’s name – William v Bartly. Plus other conundrums as I hope I've shown.

The Pub & Shop
I checked the valuation books for William Street (sic), Galway City covering the period 1918-1951 (This incorporates Williamsgate Street, according to the Valuation staff).

The only interesting premises was Property No. 16. It was occupied by Jane Giles (née Elwood) in 1918. But it's recorded as a "House & Shop", not a "Licensed House" (i.e. Pub). The owner was a Captain Lee Guinness.
Jane was succeeded by a Jennie Elwood in 1928; by a Kathleen Elwood in 1930 (there was a daughter of that name in Delia 1's family); and her in turn by Jennie Lawless (a returning, now married Jennie Elwood) in 1932. Jane Elwood married a Michael Lawless in Dublin in Oct-Dec 1928. I believe she was also from Delia 1’s family....

In 1947, Jane was succeeded by two Whelan brothers who bought out the lease from Capt Guinness and turned it into a "Licensed House & Yard" (i.e. Pub) - again? No subsequent mentions of Elwoods and definitely no Igoes at any stage. It became an Irish retail chain store in the 1970's.

Confused? Meet a fellow-traveller..... Maybe that was the aim of Mr & Mrs Igoe after all?
Anyway, it was worth a punt, but no definite conclusions about a possible Igoe connection to that particular property can be drawn, other than the indirect Elwood one.
Of course, he could have been connected to some other Pub & Shop in Galway (Or chancing his arm). Sorry, but I'm not even thinking of chasing that possibility down, too many valuation books!
It just proves that it's all very well checking primary sources; but, if you can't even trust the primary inputs 100%? And are looking for a needle in a haystack....
I found it interesting, but I hope this hasn't been a total waste of all your time!
Cheers
Des

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DesW

#47

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District Inspector 1st Class

Posts: 67

8-Jan-2012 2:36 AM

Peter Mc RIC wrote:
Monsignor Anthony J Considine, Dean of Galway, Vicar General and Apostolic Pronotary. I knew Igoe had friends in high places!

Great work Des, as always.

Cheers Peter
I'd say you have some in even higher places yourself

......
I'm humbled by your knowledge of clerical figures as well!
Des

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galway

#48

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Constable

Posts: 1

8-Jan-2012 4:04 PM

Hi, I have been in contact with Peter regarding E.Igoe and Miss Elwood and I have sent him some cuttings from the Connacht Tribune (Galway paper) which indicates E.Igoe had an interest in rowing career and rowed for an Eglington Police crew in 1914 (Eglington St was where thr police barracks was located, 100 yards from where Delia Elwood lived in Suckeen(also called Sickeen) this may have been how they met each other, the Elwood family are quite famous in rowing circles in Galway.
Regarsd,
Galway

(edited by Peter Mc - clipping from added Connacht Tribune July 1914)

just had a better look at previous posts, could Delia 2 be a cousin to Delia 1, it was not uncommon for young rural relatives to be apprenticed to work for relatives in the bigger towns,Williamsgate St is next to the Police station so E.Igoe would have known the all the Elwoods and local business owners.Annaghdown is a rural area some 7 miles from Galway on the banks of lough Corrib and could be reached by boat from Galway city.I will keep looking at the Tribune to see if there is anything else. Jane Giles cutting dated May 1925.

(edited by Peter Mc - clipping from added Connacht Tribune ref Jane Giles/Elwood no date)

(edited by Peter Mc - clipping from added Connacht Tribune ref William Elwood Nov 1926)

Last Edited By: galway 8-Jan-2012 8:09 PM. Edited 4 times.

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galway

Ancestry BMD index

#49

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Constable

Posts: 2

8-Jan-2012 10:03 PM

Name:	Delia Elwood
Estimated Birth Year:	abt 1896
Date of Registration:	Apr-May-Jun 1897
Death Age:	1
Registration district:	Galway
Death Country:	Ireland
Volume:	4
Page:	191
FHL Film Number:	101599

Name:	Delia Elwood
Estimated Birth Year:	abt 1896
Date of Registration:	Apr-May-Jun 1897
Death Age:	1
Registration district:	Galway
Death Country:	Ireland
Volume:	4
Page:	191
FHL Film Number:	101599

On Ancestry there is a Delia Elwood registered as having died in 1897 in Galway.
Name: Delia Elwood Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896 Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1897 Death Age: 1 Registration district: Galway Death Country: Ireland Volume: 4 Page: 191 FHL Film Number: 101599

There are no Delia Elwoods listed in the Birth index for the years 1890-1920 but there are 3 Bridget Elwood listed,

1.Name: Bridget Elwood Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1895 Registration district: Galway Birth Country: Ireland Volume: 4 Page: 214 FHL Film Number: 101065

2.Name: Bridget Elwood Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1895 Registration district: Galway Birth Country: Ireland Volume: 4 Page: 196 FHL Film Number: 101065

3.Name: Bridget Elwood Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1901 Registration district: Galway Birth Country: Ireland Volume: 4 Page: 221 FHL Film Number: 101068

Its still not very clear, but I would say Delia 1 and Delia 2(as per DesW ) are the same person and there may have been a double entry for her on the census form.
Regards,
Galway.

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DesW

Press Cuttings & BMDs

#50

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District Inspector 1st Class

Posts: 71

9-Jan-2012 8:22 PM

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Hi Galway
Great additions, thanks.
I'd spotted those LDS Birth records and the 1897 Death record too.
Your suggestion that "Delia 1 & 2" may be the same person in the 1911 census is fascinating and could well be correct.
(You find all kinds of fantastical "data" and errors in both Irish censuses - treat with caution in my experience).
Interesting stuff about the Elwoods and the rowing connections. As I'm sure you well know, in more recent times Elwood is a famous name in Rugby Union for Ireland & Connacht. Sport's in the genes I guess....
You can't beat local knowledge such as yours - not like my armchair/internet-based musings and theories from Dublin

.
Cheers
DesW

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galway

#51

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Constable

Posts: 3

9-Jan-2012 10:45 PM

No problem DesW, but sometimes a little local knowledge can cause one to be blinkered to other avenues.With regard to Miss Elwood,and I might be going over old ground here, there is a reference in the description of Igoe's HO340 file which states

Most of the files in this series are concerning the Head Constable of Royal Irish Constabulary, Mr. Eugene Igoe. Among the records is a copy of his death, and his widow’s birth certificates

I don't know if these papers are available yet to the public.BTW I can find no trace of the Igoes owning any premises in Galway and I am wondering if Miss Elwood was expecting to inherit Giles shop but this did not materialize when she married E.Igoe.Could the claim for compensation(claims were common at this time) be based on loss of expectations?

regarsds,
Galway

Last Edited By: galway 9-Jan-2012 10:56 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Peter Mc RIC

#52

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Posts: 1216

9-Jan-2012 11:07 PM

Inspector-General

Galway - the Death Cert is there but I took a decision not to publish it as it indicates cause of death. For me (personally. and others may have different opinions) I'd rather let the dead pass with some dignity unless the manner of their dying is absolutely relevant.
Not sure about Delia's birth cert - Ballyroughan may have seen it? - but the notes in my earlier post refer.

I agree with your assumption re the shop, it may be that Delia was to inherit, maybe did inherit, but deeds did not change? I don't know, only speculating, but whatever happened it occurred post 1922. But then Igoe was apparently a skilful player of the system and he certainly was able to capitalise on the issue. It would be fascinating if local IRA papers recorded a boycott or threat against the Elwoods.

Peter Mc

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galway

#53

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Constable

Posts: 4

10-Jan-2012 10:02 PM

Hi Peter, you are quite correct about the DC, there is no need to publish details, I was wondering if the BC for Delia was there? I have become temporarily stalled on the Elwood/Galway connection but I will post as soon as I have any pertinent information.I have done some more pc based searching regarding E.Igoes family,his elder brother John Patrick( mistranscribed as John R in the 1901 census) was also a RIC constable having joined in 1907, JP Igoe later joined the 3rd Battalion Royal Irish Fusiliers in May 1916.I had the good fortune to find his service record on Ancestry and I will list the details of his service below.
Joined at Armagh 26/5/1916 stating he was a RIC constable,described as 28 yrs old and 5 feet 11ins in height from Bonnieconlon,Carracastle,Mayo,also stated his next of kin as his father Thomas Igoe serving in the Royal Engineers in Dublin.(Thomas Igoe had ceased to be a rate collector following a scandal in 1915)
JP was numbered 24382 and was appointed A/Sgt on the 26/5/1916 as per WO letter No.27/Gen No 2345(AG 1) dated 17/3/1916.
On the 26/8/16 he was posted to Salonika and most likely the 5th or 6th RIF who were serving with the 10th Irish division at the time.
He was shortly after found to be suffering from TB and was sent home and was discharged as no longer fit for military service on the 12/12/1916.
as per KR 392,his character was described as very good and his medical condition was attributed to active military service.
Another annotation states that JP Igoe died on the 11/2/1917.
According to Ancestry's BMD index the death of a JP Igoe aged 29was registered in March 1917 at Kings Norton,Worcs.( I recall reading there was a military Hospital located there)
I can find no details of JP Igoe's burial place and there is no trace of him on CWGC.( he would be entitled to a CWGC headstone if his cause of death was directly attributed to his military service.)

I know this information is not directly linked to Eugene Igoe but it may help to build up a picture of the man.

Name:	John P Igoe
Birth Date:	abt 1889
Date of Registration:	Jan-Feb-Mar 1917
Age at Death:	28
Registration district:	Kings Norton
Inferred County:	Worcestershire
Volume:	6d
Page:	124

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DesW

Delia/Bridget Elwood - BC

#54

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District Inspector 1st Class

Posts: 75

12-Jan-2012 2:49 AM

Hi Folks,
To try and help put us all "out of our misery/mystery", I will get a birth cert for this lady shortly.
My 1st choice will be the girl born in 1901; then eenie-meenie-minie-mo, etc one of the girls born 1895. Hopefully, but probably not, I'll get a hit before the 3rd choice....might as well expect to win the Lotto! But, I'm used to that with my own family research.

Anyone with any better suggestions - please help!
Will keep you posted, OK?
Cheers
Des

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DesW

Margaret Elwood – Birth record update

#55

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District Inspector 1st Class

Posts: 76

15-Jan-2012 1:56 AM

Hi Folks
I paid the fee and asked for the 1901 Birth record in Dublin GRO...Typical - wrong father’s name (Bartly).

Thanks to the really helpful official processing my order, it was replaced (free) with the 1895 record with father’s name William, as recorded on the Igoe-Elwood 1922 Marriage record.

This record is below.
Three things say to me that this is the lady who became Eugene’s wife (But I'm always open to correction):

1. PeterMcRIC quoting this exact DOB from a note in the Igoe files; and

2. Member Galway mentioning Suckeen (this Bridget’s place of birth) being near to the Eglinton Street RIC Barracks.....

3. Both parents’ names match with the census records - http://www.census.nationa...s.ie/reels/nai000808303/ and http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003933706/

That completes the tuppence-worth I’ve added to this topic . Hope it's of interest. Plus we now see Bridget's mother's maiden name, Heffernan.

I look forward to more emerging from you experts about other members of the undercover forces on both sides in the War of Indepedence/Tan War (depending on your preferred term).
Regards

DesW

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caplestreetman

Eugene Igoe

#56

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County Inspector

Posts: 81

19-Jan-2012 8:53 PM

Not sure of what to make of the following, it is taken from www.cairogang.com/other-people/auxiliaries/reynolds/reynolds.html

It refers to J C Reynolds, the Auxiliary " informer "

Quote - John Minihan of Corofin applied for a military service pension on account of his I.R.A. work, among other tasks he says he carried out were -

" I located Fitzgerald ( one hand ) and his murder gang he was next in command to Tudor. His H.Q. were at Corifin also IOGO ( that is how it is spelt in the article ) who was also in Corifin but under cover".

The time frame is between June 1921 and July 1921

I have read the complete article a number of times during my research, but missed the possible connection, it has been playing on my mind as I could not remember where I had come across it until now.

It appears that John Minihan is referring to Eugene Igoe and he has either, mis - spelt the name or it has got mis - spelt in the taking down of his story and that Igoe was working under cover, on what he does not say, unless it was some investigation to do with Reynolds

And who is the " Fitzgerald with one hand,". could he be one of the unknown members of the " Gang", the reference to the " Murder Gang " is too coincidental.

It is only a passing sentence but has thrown up some intriguing questions and I like intrigue and mystery, I look forward to any comments or the identity of " the one handed Fitzgerald " if indeed that is his real name.

CSM

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Paddy Mayne.debcenrevisited

#57

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District Inspector 3rd Class

Posts: 36

31-Jan-2012 10:45 PM

In the photograph of F Coy below, from the Gairo gang site linked by CSM No 46 is labeled as 'Igoe (murderer)'. Is that our man and if so did he work with F Coy and possibly also with Z Coy?

http://www.cairogang.com/other-people/auxiliaries/f-coy.html

"I am not an Ulsterman but yesterday, the 1st. July, as I followed their amazing attack, I felt that I would rather be an Ulsterman than anything else in the world." Captain Wilfred Spencer 2nd July 1916

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ballyroughan

Eugene Igoe ?

#58

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Posts: 289

1-Feb-2012 5:42 PM

Yes your right, it is Eugene, i would think he worked with all branch's of the Crown Forces in Dublin, and knew most of "F" Company by sight, If not personaly, as his group also worked out of Dublin Castle,and i am sure would have provided help to each other, plus information regarding enemy activities etc.

          Ref : Photograph, From- The Bureau of Military Histroy, Dublin, Included in a scrapbook of press cuttings and photographs compiled by I.R.A. Intelligence, 1919-1921.

Last Edited By: ballyroughan 1-Feb-2012 6:42 PM. Edited 2 times.

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caplestreetman

Eugene Igoe

#59

[-]

County Inspector

Posts: 82

1-Feb-2012 6:53 PM

Hello mqbarrett, I will be visiting Dublin on 10 Feb and hope to go the N.Archives to check out the file you mentioned in your post, for some reason I cannot now click on to the papers you referred to in your original post, it comes up un - known. When you first put the information up I was able to bring up the reference to Igoe, but I didn't print off the page, do you think you could check it out for me and send me the link ?

CSM

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mgbarrett1

#60

[-]

Head Constable

Posts: 15

2-Feb-2012 7:25 PM

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Hi CSM, here is the reference as i said it might not be much but you worth a look all the same it might lead you to something else its in part 999/850 papers donated in 1971

Martin

Private Sources at the National Archives

Small Private Accessions

1972–1997

999/1–999/850

Correspondence between Diarmuid

Brennan and Máire Comerford

7 23 June 1971

Comerford to Brennan

Re Major Arthur Richards, John Charters [sic] and his vetting of Comerford for a diplomatic career.

Also re. Darrell Figgis, Sir John Taylor, Sergeant Igoe.

Also wound suffered by Collins.

4 pp

Last Edited By: mgbarrett1 2-Feb-2012 7:41 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Head Constable Eugene Igoe